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Post by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:18 pm

I’ve been debating with a lot of people about bullying and cyber bullying who say it’s the most serious issue ever and it leads to suicide and so on. I disagree with the part that it’s so serious. I break it into bullying and then cyber bullying.

Bullying

Okay, so the common argument I hear is something like “Bullying is serious. It causes self esteem issues, depression, and can lead to suicide. The Anti-Bullying campaigns in schools must continue on if we are to stop this atrocious act.”. Honestly, the self esteem issues is definitely understandable. Being someone who does have self esteem issues and has been bullied a lot, this is tough to deal with and extremely hard to get over. I’m not over them now and I don’t know if I even ever will be now. Always had them since I started being bullied in kindergarten. The depression thing is exaggerated. You have one kid going “depressed” because of one or a few guys bullying him and giving him a rough time. That’s a bit ridiculous. There’s always a way around bullying, always. If you’re being verbally bullied, tell a parent and/or teacher/principal. If you’re worried about what people think of you while “snitching”, think of it being like this, you don’t even want those people as your friend anyway. If you’re so caught up in what other people think of you rather than these kids bullying you, obviously it doesn’t bother you too much either. If you’re being physically bullied go directly to a principal or if your school has one, a SRO (School Resource Officer). If they keep bullying after you tell on them, then keep telling on them. They’ll back off eventually. If they don’t, then fight back. I realize not everyone is good at fighting and that’s probably why you’re being bullied, because you look and seem helpless. But if you fight back and win, you stopped the bullies. If you fight back and lose, you made a point and can keep telling on them and so on. This is why suicide is so extreme and over-exaggerated, because first off, it’s not even a common thing. Second off, it’s temporary either way. Temporary until you go to a new school, until you graduate from high school or middle school, until the next year, and so on. It’s always temporary and will never last forever. As for the ant-bullying campaigns, they’re jokes. Complete and utter jokes. Long speeches in auditoriums and pretty posters will solve nothing. Action however, will. Instead of just giving lightly worded speeches school staff, actually take action and start busting the balls of the bullies. Seriously.

Cyber-bullying

This is a joke. A complete joke, if you suicide over this, that's a bit ridiculous. If you’re being “bullied” over the internet, BLOCK THEM. This just, dumbfounds me at how idiotic this is and how much attention it gets. If they’re your friend on Facebook, remove them. If it’s on a forums, put them on an ignore list. If it’s on a game, block them. If it’s over text, block their number. This “bullying” online is one big joke.


Last edited by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Aη¢нσFlaмє on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:26 pm

With cyber bullying, some people who are bullied at school see the internet as being a safe place for them to ignore the bullying happening at school but when treated like shit on the internet it can feel like to the person there is no safe place. Its not as easy to ignore unless you abandon all of technology. Because some people see their internet life as their real life.

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Post by Request on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:30 pm

Agree

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Post by RayStormX on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:37 pm

Oh goody, I'm always up for a controversial topic.

Your reasoning is flawed as I am about to demonstrate:
Cyber-Bullying: If you suicide over this, you deserve to die.
Rape: If you wear sexy clothes, you're asking/deserve to be raped.

It simply does not follow. To blame the victim for their misfortune in this circumstance is ridiculous.
I will say that long speeches in auditoriums and pretty posters will bring attention to the issue and at the very least shed some information and facts about what's going on. To those who feel that this is relevant to them, they may be more likely to report on their bullies.

If you’re worried about what people think of you while “snitching”, think of it being like this, you don’t even want those people as your friend anyway
I agree. What worthless comrades to have!

The depression thing is exaggerated.
No it is not. The concept of it may seem extreme ("some kids are picking on me, boohoo I'm going to slip into depression"), but it is nevertheless a serious matter. Depression is never to be taken lightly. When one is in depression they become extremely hopeless and lose motivation in everything. At the peak of their depression,most people are too depressed to even kill themselves, not having enough motivation. Most who choose to commit suicide do so while they're recovering from their depression because they have enough determination and motivation to do something about their situation; sadly, they choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
source: Psychology 101

You are on the right track though. There are quite a few schools where teachers are slow to respond to any sort of bullying threats. they need to practice what they preach and deal out the punishment when they notice signs of bullying.


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Post by LegendaryDuku on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:23 pm

Axolotl wrote:Cyber-bullying

This is a joke. A complete joke, if you suicide over this, you deserved to die.

I was taking you seriously until I read this one line. No. Just no.

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Post by Hateful on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:36 pm

Honestly I have never been bullied so I don't really have much advice to give..
All I know is that if I were ever bullied I wouldn't wait for it to get out of hand. I'd stand my ground and fight. If you fight to protect yourself from asshole kids your parents and teachers wont really care. Sure you might be in a little bit of trouble and might get a little hurt (if they beat you up) but isn't that better than taking shit from the bullies until you graduate? If you send them a message by fighting back that will send the bastards a message saying, "I REFUSE TO TAKE YOUR SHIT".

Although I am not really an "expert" on this topic I also think most of the bullies (cyber and physical) are insecure about something in their life. Maybe their dad beats him/her and their mom, maybe their dad commited suicide, maybe they feel like they're fat and ugly so they take their emotions and change them into physical abuse aimed towards the person they find to be "weak", or maybe they really are just douchers who enjoy making other peoples life hell.

Honestly, I am not a fan AT ALL of relying on other people for help. This includes teachers, parents, ect. I prefer fighting my own battles. If you "rat" someone out they will just lose respect for you and make your life even harder. But if you fight you're own battles they might gain respect for you, even a little can go a long way. If that doesn't work you probably should bring in some outside help, but i recommend trying to take care of your own problems first. You will feel better about yourself if you can find a way to resolve your conflicts, trust me.

I guess what I am trying to say is give sticking up for yourself a shot and if that doesn't work then get help from anyone. There's no reason to be shy about this topic, my friend killed himself in eighth grade because of bullies, I think. Put a end to this shit.

If you are one of the dicks bullying others then seriously grow some balls and pick on someone your own size. I do not care what your reasons are for being a prick but just stop. Can't you see that no one likes who you are becoming? NO ONE likes a bully!

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Post by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:45 pm

Hateful wrote:
Although I am not really an "expert" on this topic I also think most of the bullies (cyber and physical) are insecure about something in their life. Maybe their dad beats him/her and their mom, maybe their dad commited suicide, maybe they feel like they're fat and ugly so they take their emotions and change them into physical abuse aimed towards the person they find to be "weak", or maybe they really are just douchers who enjoy making other peoples life hell.
That's really just propaganda spread out by the schools and parents. Bullies probably just want to be cool and feel big and bad. Their hormones and all.

If you are one of the dicks bullying others then seriously grow some balls and pick on someone your own size. I do not care what your reasons are for being a prick but just stop. Can't you see that no one likes who you are becoming? NO ONE likes a bully!
If you believe in what you said about bullies being self-conscious, do you really think telling them no one likes them will help? If anything you'd be trying to embrace them and comfort them if this were the case. While I do not deny that the self-conscious thing is sometimes the case, calling them pricks and no one likes them is out of hand.

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Post by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:51 pm

Raystormx wrote:
Cyber-Bullying: If you suicide over this, you deserve to die.
Rape: If you wear sexy clothes, you're asking/deserve to be raped.
Yes, I changed it. It was a "heat of the moment" thing.

It simply does not follow. To blame the victim for their misfortune in this circumstance is ridiculous.
It's cyber-bullying, not face-to-face bullying. If you suicide instead of taking 2 seconds out of your life to save yourself hours of your life by simply clicking a few mouse clicks to block and/or sign out, that's just sad. There is no word to describe other than pathetic, actually.

I will say that long speeches in auditoriums and pretty posters will bring attention to the issue and at the very least shed some information and facts about what's going on. To those who feel that this is relevant to them, they may be more likely to report on their bullies.
Kids are dumb fools, these auditorium speeches and posters are jokes to them. By being bullied the victim feels a need to fit in and be cool, so they keep their mouth shut and make fun of it. These things don't do anything good. Instead of wasting time splattering glitter on some half-assed post, why not actually put effort into something that will help?

No it is not. The concept of it may seem extreme ("some kids are picking on me, boohoo I'm going to slip into depression"), but it is nevertheless a serious matter. Depression is never to be taken lightly. When one is in depression they become extremely hopeless and lose motivation in everything. At the peak of their depression,most people are too depressed to even kill themselves, not having enough motivation. Most who choose to commit suicide do so while they're recovering from their depression because they have enough determination and motivation to do something about their situation; sadly, they choose a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
You seem to think I don't know what depression is. I know what depression is, have my entire life. I know the polar ends of depression from suicide, to complete apathy and sorrow, to fuck it all I'm done with this. The thing is, few of these kids are actually depressed. They feel hormones, melancholy, and a need for attention all mixed together. They create some image of a depressed innocent child being victimized by a bully with no way out - when there is. There is always a way out, they're just too stupid to follow the way out.

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Post by Hateful on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:02 pm

Hey I said I'm no expert. No one does like a bully. It's better they know now than thinking they're tough for hurting the weak. Also I wasn't saying for others to tell bullies that, that was me telling them how I feel. Bullies are pricks from Kyle (Hateful).



I've never been bullied or have been a bully so I do not know what they think. I'm just saying If you don't think you can fight for yourself maybe try to become friends with them. In 6th grade I became friends with a bully when I gave him half of my sandwich when he didn't have lunch. After that every single day he would talk to me and act like a decent human around me. Later, 7th grade, I found out his dad had died and his mom had an inoperable brain tumor. I assumed that's why he was acting out, though I could be wrong.

Sorry if my advice is the wrong thing to do or whatever, I just want this shit to stop so no one else kills themselves like Steven did.

Also, I don't have a quote, I'm pretty sure earlier you said that suicide from bullying isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I know it's rare and everything but seriously it is a HUGE problem. I know from experience one bad thing happening after another can seriously make you depressed. Without a way to escape from that depression life begins to seem hopeless and unfair. Eventually you start thinking "Maybe everyone would be better off if I were dead". Suicide is a huge deal even if its rare.

Sources: Friend killing himself, Best friends older brother O/Ding on depression pills, took counciling for depression after friend died, attempted to O/D on pain pills when friend died (I just woke up feeling like shit.)

So yea. Bullying is a big problem but seriously the pain will slowly go away with time. Once you graduate from highschool life starts over, no one knows you or your past. Things may seem hopeless now but they get better.

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Post by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:12 pm

Hateful wrote:
Also, I don't have a quote, I'm pretty sure earlier you said that suicide from bullying isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I know it's rare and everything but seriously it is a HUGE problem. I know from experience one bad thing happening after another can seriously make you depressed. Without a way to escape from that depression life begins to seem hopeless and unfair. Eventually you start thinking "Maybe everyone would be better off if I were dead". Suicide is a huge deal even if its rare.

It's not as big as people make it. They make it seem super duper common, when it's not. At all. And again, I know what depression is like. Going through it still and the only thing keeping me from killing myself is the fact that I think suicide is idiotic and that I have a huge fear of self-inflicted pain. Either way, if you really want to help people, then help them instead of calling them names.

By the way, sorry about your friend. My best friend - Anastasia - committed suicided also.

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Post by Hateful on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:15 pm

That's true. It isn't common at all.

And I also think those big bully campaigns made by schools are bullshit. They accomplish nothing. All they do is piss of the bullies more.

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Post by RayStormX on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:49 pm

The only way to verify if it's bullshit or not is to actually take a look at some statistics. we need some logos appeal here.

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Post by Hateful on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:54 pm

I don't think it would be bullshit if the teachers actually applied what they support. I know for a fact that out of all the schools I've been to 100% have given us atleast one long ass speach about bullying but maybe 1 school out of 5 have actually enforced it

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Post by Axolotl on Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:57 pm

Raystormx wrote:The only way to verify if it's bullshit or not is to actually take a look at some statistics. we need some logos appeal here.

I've been to 6 different schools in my life in 2 different states.
Not a single one did anything about bullying when tons of bullying went on.

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Post by LegendaryDuku on Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:14 pm

Axolotl wrote:
Raystormx wrote:The only way to verify if it's bullshit or not is to actually take a look at some statistics. we need some logos appeal here.

I've been to 6 different schools in my life in 2 different states.
Not a single one did anything about bullying when tons of bullying went on.

Ive been to 6, all because of bullying and I can confirm this is partly true. Ive been on all sides, the bystander, victim and bully you name it. The reason is mainly because nobody wants to "snitch".

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Post by RayStormX on Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:44 pm


It's cyber-bullying, not face-to-face bullying. If you suicide instead of taking 2 seconds out of your life to save yourself hours of your life by simply clicking a few mouse clicks to block and/or sign out, that's just sad. There is no word to describe other than pathetic, actually.
Cyber bullying can take many forms:

*Sending mean messages or threats to a person's email account or cell phone
*Spreading rumors online or through texts
*Posting hurtful or threatening messages on social networking sites or web pages
*Stealing a person's account information to break into their account and send damaging messages
*Pretending to be someone else online to hurt another person
*Taking unflattering pictures of a person and spreading them through cell phones or the Internet
*Sexting, or circulating sexually suggestive pictures or messages about a person

As they say, fame is fleeting, but the internet is forever. The damage to one's reputation on the internet can at times be irreversible. You can delete someone's idiotic troll messages to a certain degree, but when rumors spread over facebook, myspace, and other social networking sites, as well as any unflattering pictures, they're going to stay there until it gets reported and removed. and it certainly can take a while to remove the offending text/images, but the damage will already have been done.

bullyingstatistics.org wrote:
Over half of adolescents and teens have been bullied online, and about the same number have engaged in cyber bullying.
More than 1 in 3 young people have experienced cyberthreats online.
Over 25 percent of adolescents and teens have been bullied repeatedly through their cell phones or the Internet.
Well over half of young people do not tell their parents when cyber bullying occurs.
Part of the problem with the last one is that it goes unreported due to attitudes like "snitching is bad" and "It's just online, don't get worked up over it". The last one is significant because it is a common attitude and one that you seem to have as well, axolotl. Alot of people would be embarrassed to acknowledge such a problem for feel of being ridiculed so they tend to suffer in silence.

There are more statistics on there for your viewing pleasure that support my stance in this conversation as well, but I'll use these for now.

Kids are dumb fools, these auditorium speeches and posters are jokes to them. By being bullied the victim feels a need to fit in and be cool, so they keep their mouth shut and make fun of it. These things don't do anything good. Instead of wasting time splattering glitter on some half-assed post, why not actually put effort into something that will help?
The red part undermines your argument. You're taking a rather large demographic and labeling them as morons O_O. A majority of kids aren't that stupid. qualify your statements and back them up.


You seem to think I don't know what depression is. I know what depression is, have my entire life.
I'm not implying you don't know what it is. I'm implying you don't know how widespread the problem is, and your post just verified my assumption LOL


Axolotl wrote:
The thing is, few of these kids are actually depressed. They feel hormones, melancholy, and a need for attention all mixed together. They create some image of a depressed innocent child being victimized by a bully with no way out - when there is. There is always a way out, they're just too stupid to follow the way out.
Can you provide evidence that most kids feign depression and aren't really in it? show more evidence and cite sources.
Can you provide evidence that they're too stupid to find an answer other than suicide? show more evidence and cite sources. Though that seems to be a very shakey statement to be making and I'm not sure if you're seriously going to follow up on that lol.

========
Hateful wrote:I don't think it would be bullshit if the teachers actually applied what they support. I know for a fact that out of all the schools I've been to 100% have given us atleast one long ass speach about bullying but maybe 1 school out of 5 have actually enforced it
I agree.

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